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dont confuse yourself, i dont think the nba is fixed.   but google articles from the time.. more than one eyebrow was raised when the Lakers got a top pick from a bad team (no it wasnt lotto, but my point still stands).   New Orleans was a terrible team, and they got a top pick for a guy in his 30s given to them by the commish.   those are facts.

i have no problem with any of it.   my problem is with all these laker fans with their conspiracy theories all of a sudden.    the lakers are the center of most of the other tin foil hat wearers.  see 2002 wcf game 6.  just google it, and see what you come up with.

this baloney the NBA is fixing the lotto, being pushed by laker fans and others is an absolute joke.

I don't think you thought that was fix and am aware you were using that as an example of out of the ordinary transaction that raised ebrows. But the part you are not getting about the Gail Goodrich controversial transaction is that it was viewed as being favored towards the Jazz and not the Lakers.  At the time, though the Lakers had been successful, the owner, Jack Kent cook was considered cheap.  Gail Goodrich took him to court to get money he felt he was owed, and so did Jerry West after becoming coach for the Lakers.  

West was uipset with Kent when he was coach because he wanted Kent to go after Dr. Jau when he announced that he wanted from the Nets, but Kent wouldn't pay the money.  The Lakers could have had Kareem playing with Dr. Jay (and Goodrich) if Cooke was willing to spend.  But because Kent was cheap, he inadvertantly got a gold mine of the pick with Magic, who was still in high school at the time.

So, the controversy was that the Kent was giving away a future HOF player because the didn't want to spend the extra money to sign Goodrich.  Goodrich was teaming up to play with Pete Maravich in New Orleans.  So, it wasn't seen as a team that was expected to bottom out.  And just a year earlier, the Jazz acquired Pistol Pete for two first round picks, two second round picks and the third round pick in the 74 expansion draft.  That was all for one all-star.  The Lakers got less for their all-star and sent sent picks along with him.

So, that controversy wasn't  seen as favoring the Lakers, but the Lakers won out in the end when they selected Magic.  Goodrich ankles went out and Maravich knees, also  and the Jazz ended up having the worst record by 1979.  But the Jazz screwed themselve in two ways with that Goodrich deal.  The Jazz had the rights to Moses Malone in the expansion draft after the NBA/ABA merger.  The league allowed the Jazz to give up that draft right in exchange for a 1st round draft pick in 1977 because they wanted to replace the 77 pick they had giving to the Lakers.  

Since this is a Heat Haters thread I guess I don't need to be fair, right?

All this dialoge about the 50/50 calls and for good reason by looking at these fouls on Durant tonight...

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/e
ye-on-basketball/19373862/early-fou
l-trouble-sends-kevin-durant-to-ben
ch-for-thunder-in-nba-finals-game-3
-vs-heat

But it's the calls like the phantom goal tending call in game 2 that have me scratching my head.  So that missed call where James threw it off the back board (Ball should go to Thunder) tonight and it goes to an out of bound Wade (Ball should go to Thunder).  Wade does a great job of getting his feet in bounds before he hits it with his hands but before that it hits his jersey while still out of bounds.  Two missed calls both going the Heat's way. 

Bk I actually agree with GO. As well... All I was trying to point (and you actually agreed with me) about the 4th foul on durrant. I agree with go about the defense I fact I said durring the ecf that the Thunder haven't seen a defense like bos/Mia all playoffs and they were in for a rude awakening. THAT SAID, if the reffs see a pump fake or a spin move and (with about 95% certainty) call a foul on the D... Then at a certain point it stops being poor defense. I realize the thunder had a shot to win it... My only issue with this, is that sense we both agree the 4th foul was bs the Heat (highly likely) wouldn't have had such a strong comeback. Again not saying anything about a fix... I just saying laker fans nationwide rationalize the one proven fixed game by saying..."well they still had a chance to win game 6 at the end" or worse "well there was still game 7" both of these statements are factually true howeve ignore the context and point of the entire issue. Just so we are clear I'm not blaming Vegas for game 3.. I'm upset that a great deal of selective human error gave Miami an edge that was totally uncalled for in the third quarter.

.". I'm upset that a great deal of selective human error gave Miami an edge that was totally uncalled for in the third quarter.""





Heat fans were upset tht in game 1, human error gave Ok City an edge in thoses exact same situations. I pointed it out at the time, I also pointed out that I didn't blame the refs or think anything was fixed. I said that is the NBA, where the home team usually benefits on 50/50 calls,

The Heat found a way to overcome the odds and win game 2 on the road.

If Ok City doesn't win tomorrow, I fully expect it to end on Thursday. 


Ok City had an opportunity yesterday but the Heat (who didn't play that well at all) wore them down, mainly because they are making FT's vs missing the tons that cost them earlier games in other series.
  
We're at the point of the series now where most major adjusments most likely have been made. As talented as Ok CIty is, it is becoming apparent that there scoring options are very limited vs our defense.  Fischer has been excellent for them, but I can live with those 2 3's he hit yesterday. Those were both very difficult, low % shots.  That being said, the Heat must account for Fischer as Ok City must start taking Battier seriously. They seem to be the X factor as far as scoring for each team.

Are you guys still waiiting for James to do whatever you knew/thought/hoped would happen as the playoffs went along? 


I would say there is a pretty good chance you might soon be seeing a picture of him with the league MVP trophy in ome hand and the Finals MVP trophy in the other!!!!      



How long until we start hearing the asterik season nonsense?    I feel it coming!!


          


           

        

 

Even with all of the calls, the Thunder were down 1 with 1:30 left and didn't score the rest of the way. That's not the referees fault. A Durant airball, a Thabo Sefalosha turnover and a Russell Westbrook brick on the widest of wide open threes is what did them in.

thank you.

* The 2006 championship certainly deserves an asterisk.  They say history repeats itself.

Are you guys still waiiting for James to do whatever you knew/thought/hoped would happen as the playoffs went along?

Waiting?  No, it's just expected at this point, based on his history of choking.  He had to team up with 2 superstars to make it "easy".  He has yet to shed his choker, shrinkage, disappearing act baggage.  Maybe this is the year.  Let's hope that the refs don't just give it to him.



  

"Waiting?  No, it's just expected at this point, based on his history of choking."



He didn't choke vs Spurs, the Spurs were just the much better team.

My opinion on last year was that there wasn't a clear pecking order and he deferred to Wade.

This year, it is very clear who the leader and best player is.       


  " He had to team up with 2 superstars to make it "easy"."



SO now Bosh is a haters "superstar"? What happened to the Big 2.5 and all of that nonsense?    
You consider Wades play so far as superstar status?  I call it much less.  He dribbles like he's playing for the Globetrotters.

If Wade plays just 'good' the next 2 games, it's probably over.


 "Let's hope that the refs don't just give it to him."


Please. James has been dominant. A big part of his game is attacking. Only way to stop him is to foul him.

If Ok City could make FT's, maybe they would have won yesterday.     




        

Please. James has been dominant. A big part of his game is attacking.

i give james the same amount of props i gave shaq when he was in his prime. we look back on it and say "oh what a dominant big man" but what people forget (especially the younger kids) is that shaq pretty much had the ability to elbow you in the chest and sometimes the head and get away with it. even when he wasnt in his prime he got calls

this link pretty much shows just what im talking about... is shaq abusing Brad Miller or is miller being abused by the reffs?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IezXxioa9hs

on to game 4. as Turds said we'll see if LeChoke can shake his history...










CL67

The way the media works:

The Heat lose a game - Obviously you must break up the big three because they can't play together, LeBron James can't play in the clutch, Spoelstra must be fired.

The Heat win a game - It's obviously because of the referees

LOL! Its getting interesting around here. Turnip is back on the wagon full force. Hell he's driving it now. As far as this series goes there have been bad calls on both sides of the ball but I wont put that on why the Thunder loss. When you get outrebounded, shoot 22% from beyond the arc and then shot 62% from the line you WONT and dont deserve to win any basketball game. But for all you guys who are crying foul on the refs. Remember Honest Dave said he only had one bad rouge referee in the history of the sport and the rest are boyscouts. Vince McMahon I mean David Stern would not tell his officials to help determine the outcome of games!  

". Turnip is back on the wagon full force"


We have already established the band waggoning around here. 


I readily admitted I originally became a Cane fan because of success, Bandwagon guilty. As far as the Heat no way.

You on the other hand are 100% wagon.  Yankees little league!.  Lakers titles.   Tar Heels,  but COULDN'T become a fan of hometown Panthers because they didn't put the word North in front of Carolina.  Classic stuff  for sure,


As far as the Heat this series, I am at cautionally optimistic.  If they win tomorrow, I will be planning a parade route. Lose tomorrow and we are back to square 1.



." But for all you guys who are crying foul on the refs. Remember Honest Dave said he only had one bad rouge referee in the history of the sport and the rest are boyscouts."


A sentence like that would imply that you feel James winning a title would be good for the league, when the reality, it would be much better for them (if you really believe  they care) if the Heat loses.


If James wins, all this talk, all the can he or can't he,  all this nonsense ends FOREVER.   

If they lose, it starts all over again next season.     


" I mean David Stern would not tell his officials to help determine the outcome of games!  "

Only sesasons  when the Lakers don't win, correct?  

If it is all fixed, then NBA championships would mean no more than WWE belts.
    

      


   


      

I readily admitted I originally became a Cane fan because of success, Bandwagon guilty. As far as the Heat no way.

Yes you are guilty of bandwagoning the Heat! Your son's favorite team so you decided to become a fan. Casually cheered for the Cavs and still do except when they play the Heat. Comeon now.

You on the other hand are 100% wagon.  Yankees little league!.  Lakers titles.   Tar Heels,  but COULDN'T become a fan of hometown Panthers because they didn't put the word North in front of Carolina.  Classic stuff  for sure,

Rocked with the Yankees since Willie Randolph, Dave Winfield and Ricky Henderson. Yankees didnt even make the playoffs my 1st 10 years as a fan. Unlike you I didnt become a fan of the Lakers because they won a title. Your the 2006 Heat fan who wants to lie and say "Serving" since 2000! The Panthers franchise was awarded to the city of Charlotte. We know by your defection from Ohio State to the Hurricanes and from the Cavs to the Heat that you are clueless!

A sentence like that would imply that you feel James winning a title would be good for the league, when the reality, it would be much better for them (if you really believe  they care) if the Heat loses.

The Heat are a double edged lotto ticket! The league wins if they win or lose but much more if the lose. But Lebron is still Sterns Golden Boy and I dont put anything past Honest Dave. Im still laughing at Sterns respone to Jim Rome's question. Took him all out of character live. But thats your guy who you trust so much!

Only sesasons  when the Lakers don't win, correct? 

Nope there have been LAkers season's that have been questioned. Im your the only one here who thinks David Stern is incapable of doing any dirt to improve the corporation that he calls the NBA. You believe that there was only one rogue ref in the NBA who acted alone and NO ONE on his crew was aware of his actions. Oh I forgot you still think the Miami Hurricanes are innocent. With their spotless track record why would anyone believe that anything serious went on at the U! Put the umbrella down Turnip thats not rain its piss!

If it is all fixed, then NBA championships would mean no more than WWE belts.
   

Seems that way doesnt it! When a sport becomes a corporation anything can happen. If Kenneth Lay can build a company and turn a billion dollars in profits that never actually existed then Vince McMahon I mean David Stern can make Magic happen before our eyes. Its gonna be interestion when goal tending becomes legal or we see technical fouls called for floping. Will be alot easier to pass since Stern doesnt have to consult with all 30 teams anymore.

"Seems that way doesnt it!"


If it seemed that way to me, then I would invest as much time and $$$ into it as I do as wrestling which is ZERO.

It you truly belive all of this fixing and alien theories, then WHY do you choose to participate in supporting it?  


     

If it seemed that way to me, then I would invest as much time and $$$ into it as I do as wrestling which is ZERO.

LOL! Here we go with this again! LOL!

It you truly belive all of this fixing and alien theories, then WHY do you choose to participate in supporting it? 

The same reason people cheered for MArk McGuire, Sammy Sosa, McGuire when they knew they were on steriods. I love the game of basketball. Have since I was a kid. It paid for college and gave me extensive time abroad. I have been a fan of the NBA for over 30 years. I have seen a competative sport become sports entertainment. Its very entertaining. The Decision was entertaining. The "Yes We Did" Celebration was entertaining. When the NWO came together I mean JAmes, Bosh and Wade that was entertaining. People watch things that are entertaining. I find it interesting that the NFL wants to test for HGH but have decided to put the testing on hold until they conduct a population study??? For the Love of Money! I dont put anything past anyone when Billions of dollars are on the table.

"It paid for college "


English major?  


"The same reason people cheered for Mark McGuire, Sammy Sosa, McGuire "

Crazy comparison  Were steroids banned then?  Has fixing the results of sporting events ever not been illegal?

Were the games those guys played in fixed?  Do you know the players who they played agianst were not sing the same things but just didn't have the same fame or results? 

You can have all the roids in the world in you, but that doesn't mean you can face a major league pitcher and hit a ball 450 ft, does it?  


" The Decision was entertaining. "

You are comparing a TV show with a game.  That is entertaining!!


If it is all fixed, then why is Brown such a bad coach? Kobes script must be to shoot all of the time. That isn't Browns fault, it would be the fault of the script writer.  


"For the Love of Money! I dont put anything past anyone when Billions of dollars are on the table."


The NBA does make billions of dollars. If people were of your mindset they wouldn't because MOST people would not invest time or $$$ in it if they felt it was fixed. You are the exception, not the rule, if you truly belive this nonsense.


You remind me of some people I know who play online poker.  The sites rakes in the same amount of  $$$ every pot regardless of who wins.

Why would they care who wins?

I know in the past there has been software that was hacked into by players, and when that was exposed, it killed the site.

That is the point. People won't invest in something they think is fair if it is proven that it isn't.    



      

The NBA does make billions of dollars. If people were of your mindset they wouldn't because MOST people would not invest time or $$$ in it if they felt it was fixed. You are the exception, not the rule, if you truly belive this nonsense.

So why do the same people invest time and money in the WWE??? Ands it funny watching the NBA battle for ratings with the WWE in the playoffs. What you deem nonsense is reality. Your just blind and would rather look up at sprinkles of piss and think its raining!

That is the point. People won't invest in something they think is fair if it is proven that it isn't.   

So how did Vince McMahon become a billionaire again? Remind me? Tim Donaghy is the NBA's Jose Canseco the only difference is David Stern didnt bring in a 3rd party to investigate wrongdoing in his league. He did it himself! Good job Dave you learned from Selig didnt you?

"So why do the same people invest time and money in the WWE??? "


Because they enjoy it for what they  KNOW it is. Same reason cartoon movies can mak 200M.

Do you think people who watch and invest in wrestling (over the age of 8) think it is real?    

You claim to have played the game. Is that how you made a team? Your a good actor?  If it is fixed, why sign any players to big contracts. Why practice. Why have a coach, You claim the results are predetermined.  You could field the Washington Generals and win the same amount of games?


I feel sorry for Jordan They fix every game and his team could only win 7 of 66!    


See, HERE IT COMES EVERYONE.


If the Heat wins, James wil get a ring because it was FIXED, however when he lost last year, he choked.


You have actually united with Hoorse.  It was fixed for the white superstar? Correct??        

I would never trade Wade and Bosh together in a trade for one player period. Wade can easily give teams 25+ points, 6 APG, and 5 RPG as the top guy on a team. Trading Wade would just be stupid.

As I said a long time ago, 1-3 on the Heat is fine. I would even go as far as saying 4-6 I can live with it. It's 7-15 that needs improvement.

The only way I would've consider trading any of the big 3 is if the Heat did not make the finals. Now the Heat are in the finals and entered the series as the big underdogs.

Because they enjoy it for what they  KNOW it is. Same reason cartoon movies can mak 200M.

Well you have plenty of people who believe that David Stern has an effect on the outcome of game. A huge referee scandel was investigated ONLY by the commosioner who has a conflict of interest on the outcome. MAny fans enjoy the NBA for what they know it has become. Cartoon movies make 200 million because parents take their kids to see them and the kids actually believe the movie. But we know why you might pay to see a cartoon movie!

You claim to have played the game. Is that how you made a team? Your a good actor?  If it is fixed, why sign any players to big contracts. Why practice. Why have a coach, You claim the results are predetermined.  You could field the Washington Generals and win the same amount of games?

Nope I didnt get paid. But there were those that did get paid and helped fix games at the college level! Remember anything under human control can be predetermined as long as any particpant or decision maker has the ability to affect the outcome.

I feel sorry for Jordan They fix every game and his team could only win 7 of 66!    

Lets not talk about the Bobcats. They should refund tickets to every fan that paid any amount of money to see them play. Tanking for the #1 pick that they didnt get is rediculous. But your prob good with that!

If the Heat wins, James wil get a ring because it was FIXED, however when he lost last year, he choked.

No if the Heat win its because their playing better than the Thunder. But you have people who are looking at questionable calls by the refs. Based on what we have seen in the past and what was said about referees fixing games you cant ignore the possibilities. But I guess since Stern investigated the officials and found no wrong doings and felt that he ONLY had one rogue ref and all is fixed your good with that. Did you buy stock in ENRON?

You have actually united with Hoorse.  It was fixed for the white superstar? Correct??        

Funny you bring that up cause when he said it you agreed with him! That was one of your priceless gems!

SO now Bosh is a haters "superstar"? What happened to the Big 2.5 and all of that nonsense?

I never subscribed to the 2.5 idea.  Maybe people were saying that just to get Heat fans riled.  Check the name of the thread you're on.

You consider Wades play so far as superstar status?  I call it much less.  He dribbles like he's playing for the Globetrotters

What are you saying?  Wade (and Bosh?) are "much less" than superstars?  That's why they're in the finals back to back?  What tha?  You've seen what James can do without superstars around him - made it to the finals once and got swept.

Now, of course we know that Lebron makes the players around him look worse.  Naturally, Wade's and Bosh's stats are going to go down when they share the court with James.

You're still high from last night's win there pal.  Not that there's anything wrong with that but don't get carried away.  If he didn't need superstars, he'd still be on the Cavs.

"I never subscribed to the 2.5 idea. "


Credit to you then


"Maybe people were saying that just to get Heat fans riled.  Check the name of the thread you're on."


Not buying.  For 2 years they have listed the same lame reasons and excuses as to why they feel Bosh is overpaid.  Funny thing is when you ask them to name a players with his  credentials making less, their list doesn't grow above ZERO names!   


"What are you saying?  Wade (and Bosh?) are "much less" than superstars?"

Wade was a superstar, and at times still shows us why.  But, for the most part, I believe he can't carry a team very far anymore as the main guy.

He has aged alot the last few years. Let's hope he can smell this ring snd give us some Flash for the next couple games.


Bosh is the definition of an All Star.   

"That's why they're in the finals back to back?  "


That, for the most part is becasue they have LeBron James .  He is and will be  the X factor, win or lose.


"Now, of course we know that Lebron makes the players around him look worse."


Nonsense. He is the most unselfish superstar in the league.  People rip him when he shows that side of himself and defers to teammates who have higher % shots. Haters will find a way to hate. The rest of the world will simply continue to watch him play basketball and appreciate the rare skills he brings to the game.   ,


"Wade's and Bosh's stats are going to go down when they share the court with James."

Wades turnover stats are way up. As far as shooting, Wades % will go down because he doesn;t attack like he used to and he never was a high % mid or long range shooter.


As far as Bosh, yes, as a #3 option, his personal stats will suffer a bit, but anyone who watches the Heat knows that his presence makes it so much easier for everyone else.  So if everyone else is doing better becasue of him, that is an unwritten positive stat for Bosh,
Two years on the Heat as the 3rd fiddle and 2 all star games for him.  Smart people know his value.      


 "If he didn't need superstars, he'd still be on the Cavs."

Can you even imagine someone trying to beat the Heat if we could combine the current James with the '06 Wade?  




    


     

LBJ "is the most unselfish superstar in the league"

Except when he runs up his stats.  Also when Lebron defers in the clutch that is seen by most as choking, not being 'unselfish'.  It characterized his finals series last year...

Bosh is the definition of an All Star.
"That's why they're in the finals back to back? "
That, for the most part is becasue they have LeBron James . He is and will be the X factor, win or lose

Cavs were never in the finals B2B with James.  He needed help, he knew it, so he joined forces with Wade and Bosh.  He probably also wanted to get away from Mike Brown but Spo is a small improvement at best.  Most NBA coaches could not coach James.  If PJ had coached LBJ for his whole career, he'd have rings, the only question would be how many.

How long until we start hearing the asterik season nonsense?    I feel it coming!!

Miami Heat 2012 NBA Champs*



I aim to please, Turnip.

"I aim to please, Turnip."


LOL, he IS an interesting little fellow. when the Heat are losing he's prepared to MONTHS with excuses. when the Heat win the true jackass in the guy comes out...













CL67