Now weteher whether or not the Browns

http://youtu.be/cn358RJZuPU


to funny



please feel free to correct my spelling anytime you guys / gals feel like it .


i honestly could give a chit less as its ovverated anyway . i know total idiots that can spell . it doesnt change the fact that there idiots . it just means there somewhat edumacated idiots ..far to many of those running around free . maybe there should be open season them you know like there is for deer .

karry on now .i am taking my fat hungover ass to Wendys

As the draft approaches, some teams will need to find a feature back to help them pound the rock and improve their running game.

Essentially, running the football and working down the clock translate into winning football games for most teams, so in this year's draft a few teams will be looking to add talent to their backfield and hopefully improve their rushing attack.

1. Cleveland Browns - Trent Richardson, RB, Alabama, First Round (4)
Unfortunately for the Browns, after being put on top of the list for needing a wide receiver, they also find themselves at the top for needing a running back. With Peyton Hillis departing for Kansas City, they needed to add a back in the draft, but it's time for them to add an elite one to their roster.
For them to be successful, especially in a tough AFC North, running back by committee isn't going to work. Neither Montario Hardesty, Brandon Jackson nor Chris Ogbonnaya are the solution to the Browns becoming successful. Richardson is the best prospect since Adrian Peterson. He is "can't miss" for the Brownies.
2. Indianapolis Colts - Cyrus Gray, RB, Texas A&M, Fourth Round (97)
When you have the first overall pick in a draft, obviously you have a lot of needs to fill. This is exactly the case for the Colts. With Joseph Addai's return highly unlikely, guys like Donald Brown and Delone Carter will need to step up.
With their inexperience, the Colts can look to add a solid back in Gray in a later round of the draft. He isn't the best prospect coming out of the draft, but can bring a lot to Bruce Arians' rushing offense.
3. Washington Redskins - Robert Turbin, RB, Utah State, Fourth Round (109)
Everyone knows Mike Shanahan loves having a strong rushing attack. With the 'Skins projected to draft Robert Griffin III, it only makes more sense for them to bulk up their rushing attack to help the rookie quarterback grow.
Turbin is a big, bang between the tackles back that can make an immediate impact bruising defenders in short-yardage situations. He would be a nice complement to Roy Helu in Shanahan's run game.
4. Cincinnati Bengals - Isaiah Pead, RB, Cincinnati, Second Round (53)
As the Bengals grow as an offense behind last year's top draft picks A.J. Green and Andy Dalton, they will need to add a running back to the mix that can make their offense one of the most dynamic in the game.
Although the Bengals have brought in BenJarvus Green-Ellis and have Bernard Scott as a solid backup, bringing in the hometown kid, Pead, can give the Bengals a dominant rush attack to pair up with their aerial assault.
5. Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Ronnie Hillman, RB, San Diego State, Fifth Round (140)
The Bucs would love to get their hands on Richardson, but who wouldn't? Instead they're going to have to find complements for their bulldozer, LeGarrette Blount. A perfect fit for the Buccaneers could be Ronnie Hillman, a speedy back that broke all of Marshall Faulk's freshman records at San Diego State.


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C'mon Mano!!!!!  Getting Luck or RG3 in this draft won't make them a SB contender.  One draft ain't gonna do it.

Hey Duff!  I'm not saying it would, but it gets you MUCH closer than drafting Richardson does.

The most important position on the field is QB.  Without a great one, you aren't winning a Superbowl.  Not anymore.  Period.
There is no point in harping on the RGIII thing anymore, that ship has sailed. 

And if they stink this year, especially Colt McCoy, the Browns will be drafting early enough and won't have the Redskins to out-bid them in an attempt to move up and grab next year's QB who will "get them to a Super Bowl" as you put it. 

The future is uncertain.  That's why I was such a big advocate for taking one of the top guys this year while you had the chance.  If the Browns go out and win 7 or 8 games this year, the top QBs in next year's draft are likely out as well.  McCoy, Richardson and, say, Stephen Hill might make this offense just good enough to be a middle of the pack group, making finding that elite QB more difficult.

Then again, maybe the Browns get lucky in the next couple of years and find that guy.  Who knows?

All I know, without reservation, is that as long as the Browns don't have a franchise quality QB, they will not be a factor in the championship race.

The most important position on the field is QB.  Without a great one, you aren't winning a Superbowl.

Not if you don't have a RT an RB (and Hardesty, Oingo-boingo, and Brandon Jackson aren't collectively worth one good RB) and a bona fide #1 WR, it isn't.  You could put Brees, Brady, or Rodgers in at QB and they might win us 3-4 more games but that's it.

The future is uncertain.  That's why I was such a big advocate for taking one of the top guys this year

After Luck and RG3, there are no more Top Guys.  The rest are more likely to be considered projects. just as Colt McCoy still is.

Then again, maybe the Browns get lucky in the next couple of years and find that guy.  Who knows?

Then again, maybe McCoy just needed some pieces and parts to give him a real chance.  I'm not saying he's our guy.  I'm saying, who the heck can tell, if he has nothing better than the sub-par supporting cast he plays with now.

All I know, without reservation, is that as long as the Browns don't have a franchise quality QB, they will not be a factor in the championship race.

I agree.  But there isn't one left in this year's draft who "the experts" would deem to be our franchise's saviour.  And without a viable supporting cast, it wouldn't matter if there was.  Who knows if one of the later round QB's doesn't turn out to be another Tom Brady?  Better to stock the pantry, go for broke next year in hopes of getting the "franchise" QB and grab Cousins, Osweiler or Foles later on this year.

The first 3 or 4 rounds of this draft, if Heckert hits on his picks, should more than likely be starters who will have an instant impact.  If you take a QB at #22 (cause Tannehill at #4 is just insane), you now downgrade the next 2 or 3 players the Browns select to fill immediate needs like LB, RB, WR, RT, and DB.  The "QB of our dreams" can wait another season.  And then if the Browns are still in need, the Redskins won't outbid us and we'll be a better team overall and in more positions, for the new QB to come in and start.  And who's to say that Colt won't prosper if he has some weapons?  If he does, great.  If not, we only have one (and I stress, just one) priority next year......getting one of the top QB's.  And they should be more able to give up a large part of the draft to get him, if all goes well this year.

Not if you don't have a RT an RB (and Hardesty, Oingo-boingo, and Brandon Jackson aren't collectively worth one good RB) and a bona fide #1 WR, it isn't.

Not true. An undrafted free agent RB (who didnt even play in college) and a 4th round pick from the big bad football school Hofstra won a SB in 2008.

I'm not saying he's our guy.  I'm saying, who the heck can tell, if he has nothing better than the sub-par supporting cast he plays with now.

His current coaches and personnel guys can tell. They tried to give up (3) 1sts and a 2nd for his replacement. Who does that if your current guy has the tools necessary to lead your team?

It is so obvious and you guys just have blinders on.

Not true. An undrafted free agent RB (who didnt even play in college) and a 4th round pick from the big bad football school Hofstra won a SB in 2008.

And Tom Brady was drafted in the 6th.  What's your point?  And you forgot to address the RT we need and the upgrade at WR.  With our first three picks (if we take Richardson and ignore QB) we get the top RB in the draft, possibly one of the top 3 WR's and one of the top 2 or 3 RT's.  If they trade up, they'll have a good shot at Wright or Floyd at WR and if they keep the 2nd rounder, a good shot at Sanders, Massie, or Adams at RT.  And then you can throw in your possible later round finds that you keep touting.

It is so obvious and you guys just have blinders on.

I was thinking the same of you.  It's different when you have a team stocked with depth and some quality starters to begin with.  We don't have that.  Half our starters wouldn't be a starter anywhere else on any other NFL team.  And the rest of our Junior Varsity players suck eggs.   You have an actual real team in the Steelers.  You add new players every year to learn the ropes behind the starters with the occasional starter to boot.  We still need quality starters and depth.  The Steelers are re-stocking the pantry.  The Browns are still filling it the first time.  Big difference.

And Tom Brady was drafted in the 6th.  What's your point?

I don't really have a point. You said ...

Not if you don't have a RT an RB (and Hardesty, Oingo-boingo, and Brandon Jackson aren't collectively worth one good RB) and a bona fide #1 WR, it isn't.

... and it's simply not true. And I can give you many more examples. Ahmad Bradshaw was taken in the 7th round and the Giants RT (McKenzie) is available if you want him. They don't.

And you forgot to address the RT we need and the upgrade at WR

Maybe I wasn't clear but the 4th round pick from Hofstra was the RT. I love Hines Ward but he's never been a #1 WR by anyone's definition. He was a very nice possession receiver (think Little) who also blocked very well. The other two WRs on that team were Randle El and Cedrick Wilson.

The key to that team was obviously defense and a great QB who could make it happen when the opposing team shut the run down (which happens in the playoffs).

I was thinking the same of you.  It's different when you have a team stocked with depth and some quality starters to begin with.  We don't have that.  Half our starters wouldn't be a starter anywhere else on any other NFL team.

Says who? This is the argument you guys always make that is born out of nothing. Your o-line is as good as any in the AFC North. Your defense has nice players at every level. Little has the making of a stud. You guys throw him under the bus because it helps your argument for Colt McCoy.

Joe Haden
T.J. Ward
Dqwell Jackson
Scott Fujita
Jabaal Sheard
Phil Taylor
Ahtaya Rubin
Joe Thomas
Alex Mack
Jason Pinkston
Greg Little
Ben Watson

All those guys would be playing on other teams - or did play on other teams.

Says who? This is the argument you guys always make that is born out of nothing. Your o-line is as good as any in the AFC North. Your defense has nice players at every level. Little has the making of a stud. You guys throw him under the bus because it helps your argument for Colt McCoy.

who throws Little under the bus ? he missed one year of football due to suspension . he is a converted runningback so some growing pains were expected out of him . yes the drops got on my last nerve last season but so did the whole offense all the way down from the clueless crappy OC  to the drops to the missed blocks .Jebus must i go about the offensive offense .


he will only get better .much like i hope  the playcalling game day preperation and intensity does  all of which was lacking last season .


make it happen Heckert ..make it happen

heres one .


If McCoy was in this years draft where would you all have him ranked ?


best QB available

late first

second or third round

fourth round down to undrafted

this ought to be interesting

If McCoy was in this years draft where would you all have him ranked ?

I'll answer with players ...

Kirk Cousins projected 2nd-3rd round
Brock Osweiler projected 2nd-3rd round
Russell Wilson projected 3rd-4th round

I think he'd be in that group.

The Cleveland Browns have two first-round picks tonight, their own (No. 4 overall) and the Falcons’ (No. 22). But by the end of the night they may end up drafting three players.

That’s a scenario envisioned by Jason La Canfora of NFL Network, who thinks that the Browns would like to draft Oklahoma State quarterback Brandon Weeden but view No. 22 as a little bit too high to take him. So the plan for the Browns could be to bolster other positions at No. 4 and No. 22 and then trying to trade back up into the end of the first-round to draft Weeden before the night ends.

The Browns’ second-round pick is No. 37 overall, and Cleveland would be ecstatic if Weeden lasted that long. But if they decide they don’t want to chance that, trading the 37th pick and another pick to move somewhere in the 25-32 range could be the move for the Browns to make. The Patriots, who have the 31st pick in the first round, might be open to moving back six spots and getting an extra pick for their trouble.

Cleveland has a major need for offensive playmakers tonight. It’s possible that with the right moves, they could end up with a trio like Alabama running back Trent Richardson at 4, Georgia Tech receiver Stephen Hill at 22 and Weeden with a trade near the end of the first round. That would radically transform the future of the Browns’ offense.

Browns quarterback Colt McCoy struggles to throw the football outside the numbers. He is unavoidably small in the pocket and has been prone to injury, including last year’s well-publicized concussion. McCoy has a 6-15 record through two seasons. His 6.3 career YPA is minuscule, and McCoy regressed from his rookie year to last season.

But the Browns have done nothing to improve the quarterback position this offseason. They seem to still like McCoy. And that’s what ESPN’s Bob Holtzman confirmed live from Browns headquarters on Thursday, while explaining why Cleveland won’t be drafting a quarterback high.

“They expect McCoy to make a big leap from last year to this year,” Holtzman reported. “They are comfortable if he’s their starting quarterback.”

Recent reports suggest that Cleveland has an affinity for Brandon Weeden out of Oklahoma State, although Holtzman hinted that, based on his information, we shouldn’t expect the Browns to draft a quarterback before the third or fourth round. We’ll just have to wait and see what happens.

If the Cleveland Browns select running back Trent Richardson tonight, the greatest Browns running back of them all will not be impressed.

Jim Brown said today on ESPN Radio that he doesn’t think Richardson is a great running back who’s going to make a great impact in Cleveland.

“I’m not overwhelmed with it,” Brown said of the idea that the Browns could take Richardson. “The problem is that he’s ordinary. I think he’s ordinary.”

Asked what about him is ordinary, Brown said, “the size, the speed, his moves.”

Asked if any running backs in this year’s draft impress him, Brown said, “Not really. It’s not a good year, obviously.”

Brown also said he wasn’t impressed with Mark Ingram, the Saints’ first-round draft pick last year, and he suggested that if Richardson couldn’t start ahead of Ingram when they both played at Alabama, that means Richardson can’t be better than Ingram.

The 76-year-old Brown, who was Cleveland’s first-round pick in the 1957 NFL draft, said he doesn’t see many impact running backs left in pro football.

“When I watch football today I see a game of quarterbacks,” Brown said. “Protecting quarterbacks, throwing the ball, short passes, long passes, all kinds of passes.”

And in a game of quarterbacks, Brown doesn’t see the point of drafting an ordinary running back.

Baylor receiver Kendall Wright knew after his slow 40-yard dash at the Scouting Combine that some folks questioned whether he has deep speed. But when he ran again at Baylor’s Pro Day and did it bare-chested, it wasn’t because he thought a shirt was slowing him down.

Instead, Wright was interested in showing off his physique, because he wanted NFL teams to see for themselves that he’s not fat.

In a detailed story about all the draft hype surrounding Wright, who has been projected all over the place in various mock drafts and whose stock has seemed to go up and down with every week of the offseason, Sean Jensen of the Chicago Sun-Times writes that the things that bothered Wright most of all that people have said about him is that his body fat was 16 percent. In reality, Wright said that when an NFL team brought him in for a visit and measured his body fat, it came in at 8.4 percent.

For an average person, 16 percent body fat isn’t really fat at all, but for an NFL receiver it would be on the chubby side. But Wright says NFL teams know the truth, and the truth is that he’s not fat.

Amid reports that the Pro Bowl may go the way of the drop kick (except when executed during a Pro Bowl with 21 other guys standing around and watching), the NFLPA has no interest in pulling the plug on the annual All-Star game.

“The Pro Bowl is an important tradition [and] we are in talks with the league to improve and preserve the game for our players and fans,” NFLPA president Domonique Foxworth said Thursday on Twitter.

The fans don’t really care much about the game.  Yes, the fans watch it — primarily because it’s NFL football and it’s on TV.  But the quality of the play has suffered, making the game even less competitive than a preseason game.

One way to fix the game would be to dramatically increase the difference between the paycheck for the winners and the paycheck for the losers.  Actually, that may be the only way to convince guys who have made it through a season healthy enough to play one last game to risk suffering a serious injury that they’d then have to spend the offseason rehabbing.

The fact that the NFL and NFLPA are talking about it, and the fact that the NFLPA wants to keep doing it, means that the two sides could come to some sort of an agreement, if the NFLPA is willing to give up something to the NFL in return.

Meanwhile, Jerry Jones and Daniel Snyder brace for another raid on their cap space.

I think its worth using an early second on a guy like Brandon Weeden, though, but that's just me.

Weeden is an absolute waste of any 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round pick the Browns have.  It's gonna take the guy a couple of years to get the system if, and that's a big if, the Browns are also able to draft the requisite upgrades on the offense. 

The guy is 28 already and will be 29 in October.  Let's be generous and say he'll have a nice long, healthy career.  What age do good (not great, cause he no top 5 pick) QB's usually last until in the NFL? 35? 36?  So by the time he "gets" the system, he'll be 31.  That gives him 5, maybe 6 seasons of good play.  That's not worth it if you use a 2nd rounder or the #22.  You only get half the career out of the guy who may never pan out in the first place.  And 3-4 years into his career you already need to start looking for the next franchise QB, since as you said, it's imperative to have in order to win a Super Bowl. 

Again, and it's becoming a little too tedious tryi8ng to make my point, grab the talent now at needed positions.  Gambling on a project QB this year when you already have one is insanity.  You can gamble again next year on a project QB.  Or go all-out-Redskins and trade up for one of the top QB's having taken care of 3 or 4 areas of need this year and having those 3-4 guys get a year of experience under their belt.

---

 

Not if you don't have a RT an RB

Sure its true.  Bad O-lines have won Superbowls recently, and I should know!  Bad RBs have won Superbowls recently.  How many bad QBs have won Superbowls recently?

(Repeatedly bangs head on computer desk)

Good lord, the use of semantics here!!!!!!!

Of course they have. But they had:

• quality starting WR's
• and/ or a quality running game
• and/or a franchise QB
• and/or a solid defense
• quality depth on their rosters
• a stable, experienced head coach and staff
• and most of all, they had at least 3 of the previously listed items

Let's see what the Browns have:

• WR's - Nope.  Maybe Little but only if he stops dropping the ball.
• Quality RB's - Nope
• Franchise QB - Nope
• Solid defense - Maybe.  2012 stats say yes.
• Quality depth - Nope
• Stable coaching staff - Nope
• Possess multiple items from above listed - Big old definite "Nope"

By your arguments, the Browns will stink without a franchise QB.  And I reply, Good!!!!!!  I won't be ticked off if they find out McCoy stinks on ice with some capable offensive players added this year.  Heckert doesn't do the free agent game.  He builds through the draft.  We stink with McCoy in 2012, then we have a better chance at the top QB in 2013.  But in the mean time, the Browns have added sorely needed playmakers and more team depth and given them a year of experience come next draft. 

The same chances of finding a franchise QB will exist next year as well.  I say even better since the Browns just may own that top draft pick or be in easy striking range of trading for it without the likes of Dan Snyder doing whatever it takes to get what he wants.

(Repeatedly bangs head on computer desk)

well then join me in my lawsuit against the Browns . the players are all filing concussion lawsuits i might as well file one to as i am sure i have a mushed coconut from banging my head against the wall the last 15 years     

well then join me in my lawsuit against the Browns . the players are all filing concussion lawsuits i might as well file one to as i am sure i have a mushed coconut from banging my head against the wall the last 15 years     

They'll probably throw that case out of court after all those brain cells you intentionally killed off last night

When you get to court you get a Terry Bradshaw look-a-like judge and he throws it out because as a Browns fan you had to be born with a undersized Brain Bucket that kept blood form normal avenues to the coconut, which causes you to square off often with walls

I really don't know how I got into this argument.

Don't worry about it Mano.  I appreciate an alternative view.  Thanks for arguing with me, it gave me something to do as I was puttering around the house today.  They may have named the Kool-Aid around here after me, but I'm far from wearing those goggles while looking at the Browns' roster prior to the draft tonight.  All I see is an incapable offense with some gaping holes (QB possibly included)

I still think your approach is wrong.  And after the draft, the Browns will prove me wrong too, as to what they need and draft this year.

If we should ever meet up, I'll buy you a beer or a Kool-Aid. 

Of course they have. But they had:

• quality starting WR's
• and/ or a quality running game
• and/or a franchise QB
• and/or a solid defense
• quality depth on their rosters
• a stable, experienced head coach and staff
• and most of all, they had at least 3 of the previously listed items

Let's see what the Browns have:

• WR's - Nope.  Maybe Little but only if he stops dropping the ball.
• Quality RB's - Nope
• Franchise QB - Nope
• Solid defense - Maybe.  2012 stats say yes.
• Quality depth - Nope
• Stable coaching staff - Nope
• Possess multiple items from above listed - Big old definite "Nope"

This is where we have a disconnect, Duff.  I don't believe the Browns are missing all of those things. 

By your arguments, the Browns will stink without a franchise QB.

Not at all.  They could be a solid, middle of the pack, franchise without a franchise QB.  Drafting Richardson and making some other good picks tonight will probably get them close to that category.  They will just never contend for a Superbowl until they find a franchise QB.

That's all I'm saying.

The same chances of finding a franchise QB will exist next year as well.  I say even better since the Browns just may own that top draft pick or be in easy striking range of trading for it without the likes of Dan Snyder doing whatever it takes to get what he wants.

My problem with this line of thinking is that I really don't think the Browns will be picking in the top 10 next year.  I honestly believe that they are much closer to being a good football team than many of you seem to think.

McCoy doesn't suck.  He's just good enough that with a good defense and a strong running game, the Browns will probably win 7 or 8 games next year.  That leaves them picking in the middle of the first round and having to get "lucky" like the Steelers and Ravens did drafting a franchise guy outside the top 10.


I really don't know how I got into this argument.  The reality is that the Browns can't take a top QB prospect this year, so they are probably going to do what you all want them to do.

If it were me, and someone was willing to trade up into the #4 spot, I'd take the extra pick, drop back a bit, grab Michael Floyd later in the top 10.  Take Cordy Glenn at #22 if he's there.  Take Doug Martin at #37 if he's available.  Use the extra pick on another solid player.

I think that draft is better than Richardson at #4, Wright or Hill at #22 and some Tackle prospect at #37, but maybe that's just me.

Let's see what the Browns have:

• WR's - Nope.  Maybe Little but only if he stops dropping the ball.
• Quality RB's - Nope
• Franchise QB - Nope
• Solid defense - Maybe.  2012 stats say yes.
• Quality depth - Nope
• Stable coaching staff - Nope
• Possess multiple items from above listed - Big old definite "Nope"

I don't believe the Browns are missing all of those things. 

Mano.  Enlighten me if you would.  Just which of those do you think the Browns have in place ? ? ? 

Mano.  Enlighten me if you would.  Just which of those do you think the Browns have in place ? ? ?

I've said it already.  I think the defense is better than solid.  I think the WR situation is far better than you guys do and is made to look worse by a QB that can't throw consistently, or with any zip, outside the hashes.  The RB situation needs to be addressed but you don't need the #4 pick to address it with (again, take Richardson if he's at the top of your board, but I honestly believe that great backs will be available MUCH later in this draft than #4). 

They need to improve their depth and get a franchise QB.

The coaching staff is up in the air, but I have hope for Shurmur if he doesn't spread himself too thin like he did last year.

And the one that wasn't mentioned...the O-line...is SO MUCH better than you guys give it credit for!


I'm not trying to imply that the Browns are on the cusp of greatness, but they are certainly on the cusp of goodness.  With the pieces they add in this draft, they could very well be an 8 or 9 win team even with Colt McCoy under Center.  Unfortunately, that's all they will probably ever be with him under Center.

Mano, here's just a little more fuel for the fire.

From Evan Silva at Rotoworld:

2nd-Round QB Success Rate

We took a look last January at the plight of quarterbacks who've been drafted in the second round since 1991. The results weren't pretty. This column is an update on that blog post.

It's been more than ten years since the second round of the draft produced a surefire franchise quarterback. Drew Brees was the 32nd pick in 2001, before the league expanded to 32 teams.

Second-round quarterbacks since Brees:

Andy Dalton (Bengals), 2011
Colin Kaepernick (49ers), 2011
Jimmy Clausen (Panthers), 2010
Pat White (Dolphins), 2009
Brian Brohm (Packers), 2008
Chad Henne (Dolphins), 2008
Kevin Kolb (Eagles), 2007
John Beck (Dolphins), 2007
Drew Stanton (Lions), 2007
Kellen Clemens (Jets), 2006
Tarvaris Jackson (Vikings), 2006

*No quarterbacks were drafted in the second round of the 2002-2005 drafts.

Dalton did show some signs that he'll be able to handle the position capably, but he will have to contend with physical limitations for the duration of his pro career. The league also seemed to catch onto Dalton's act as his first season progressed. In the Bengals' final nine games, including the playoffs, Dalton completed just 169-of-301 passes (56.1%) for 1,959 yards (6.51 YPA) with seven touchdowns and 12 turnovers. The jury is still very much out on last year's 35th overall pick.

The NFL's history of second-round quarterback whiffs extends around Brees and all the way back to Brett Favre ('91).

Second-round quarterbacks between Brees and Favre:

Quincy Carter (Cowboys), 2001 - 34 starts
Marques Tuiasosopo (Raiders), 2001 - 2 starts
Shaun King (Bucs), 1999 - 24 starts
Charlie Batch (Lions), 1998 - 53 starts
Jake Plummer (Cardinals) - 136 starts
Tony Banks (Rams), 1996 - 78 starts
Todd Collins (Bills), 1995 - 21 starts
Kordell Stewart (Steelers), 1995 - 87 starts, career 77:84 TD-to-INT ratio
Matt Blundin (Chiefs), 1992 - 0 starts
Tony Sacca (Cardinals), 1992 - 0 starts

Favre was the 33rd overall pick in the 1991 draft. If you generously include Plummer and rush to crown Dalton, the NFL is 3-for-22 on second-round signal callers in the past 20 drafts.

There is still reason for optimism on Kaepernick and perhaps Kolb, although the latter's skittish pocket presence will likely doom him in the pros. So perhaps one or two more of the 22 second-rounders will emerge as long-term answers at the quarterback position.

They just won't have history on their side.

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- When you arrived in town and say that your plan is to rebuild the Browns through the draft, then you had better draft well.

When it comes to Browns General Manager Tom Heckert and this weekend -- you better have a great draft. The Browns pick No. 4 and No. 22 tonight -- with 11 more picks to come over the next few days. Along with team president Mike Holmgren, Heckert made the decision that nearly all of the new players coming to the team will be through the draft.

This is Heckert's third draft, and No. 4 is his highest pick with the Browns. Heckert's first two drafts here have been ... pretty good.

In 2010, they picked up starters Joe Haden, T.J. Ward, Colt McCoy and Shawn Lauvao.

In 2011, they traded down from No. 6 and ended up with starters Phil Taylor, Jabaal Sheard, Greg Little and Jason Pinkston.

Will any of those players become stars? Maybe. Haden and Sheard seem the most likely to make the Pro Bowl. Perhaps Little will take a significant step forward as a receiver, especially if the Browns add another wideout.

But Heckert has yet to draft a player who excites the fan base, the kind of player whose jersey is one fans immediately want to buy. Nor have any of these players changed the 4-12, 5-11 rut that has trapped the team in the last four years.

He has a chance to do that tonight.

Most fans want Alabama running back Trent Richardson. Others like receiver Justin Blackmon. Many are fearful the Browns will trade down, settling for quantity rather than star power.

Yet it's hard to imagine the Browns dropping more than a few notches from the No. 4 pick. Part of the reason for the 2011 draft day deal with Atlanta was to set up this season's draft. Yes, the Browns traded the draft rights to Julio Jones for Taylor, Little and Owen Marecic. The Browns also added the No. 22 pick and a fifth-rounder this season as part of the trade.

The Browns are counting of Heckert's drafting skill, because they have done so little in free agency in the last three years. Here's a list of signings:

2012: Two defensive ends, Frostee Rucker and Juqua Parker.

2011: running back Brandon Jackson along with defensive backs Dimitri Patterson and Usama Young.

2010: tackle Tony Pashos, tight end Ben Watson and linebacker Scott Fujita.

When Heckert said the Browns would "not go crazy" in free agency, he certainly told the truth. This Browns front office has taken a slow and steady approach, adding decent players and not trashing the salary cap.

But good teams all have a couple of great players. It's time for Heckert to find some, and this draft gives him that chance.

Not if you don't have a RT an RB

Sure its true.  Bad O-lines have won Superbowls recently, and I should know!  Bad RBs have won Superbowls recently.  How many bad QBs have won Superbowls recently?

You could put Brees, Brady, or Rodgers in at QB and they might win us 3-4 more games but that's it.

Boy, do I ever disagree with this!  If you put Aaron Rodgers on the Browns this year, they are a 10 win team, minimum.  I think you underestimate how much better your weapons would be with a guy like him playing QB.  How good would Greg Little and MoMass be if Rodgers was throwing the ball?  How much better would your existing RBs be if defenses couldn't load the box?

After Luck and RG3, there are no more Top Guys.

Oh, I agree.  There are no more guys you use either #4 or #22 on, unless for some strange reason Tannehill drops all the way to #22.  I think its worth using an early second on a guy like Brandon Weeden, though, but that's just me.

Then again, maybe McCoy just needed some pieces and parts to give him a real chance.  I'm not saying he's our guy.  I'm saying, who the heck can tell, if he has nothing better than the sub-par supporting cast he plays with now.

Nah.  Like beach has said repeatedly...the guys who see him every day dono't really believe in him, why should we?

You want the old-school free java chat back tonight?


the OBR Strikes again .


you fans of other teams also have there own boards on Scout.com .its not just for Browns fans incase you all didnt know .



Make it happen tonight Heckert .please make it happen . restore my pride . faith make my Browns Sundays fun again . 

Your right it is a QBs league Mano , at least in the sense that when your down 4 with 4 minutes left, it is up to the QB to direct the offense into the end zone and a win.  Now we don't know except on paper how Andrew Luck or RGIII will work out in the long run but with the draft, the assumptions often turn to a large smell later.  Yes the Steelers went out and got Big Ben and he has totally worked out but even Tom Brady wasn't found until the 6th.  So sometimes the gems are found later too.  As for H&H going after RGIII from the Rams, I can think of 2 organizations in general that over time pull all the stops at today.  The Rich Kids Redskins and Allen's Raiders always pulled the trigger quicker.  I know the talk of inside trading so to speak between the Redskins and Rams that excluded the Browns but I think the draft choises that H&H had were more important to them then what Synder was willing to give up and give the Rams.  I also agree that if the Browns improve enough and get that 6-10 or 7-9 season which is a good possibility if the draft is good, a great QB prospect next year won't be available in round 1 when they pick.  It remains to be seen if Colt McCoy will direct the Browns enough to improve but given more tools like Trent Richardson or Justin Blackmon, it makes sense to think he will be better.  Will he be Brady or Ben or Rodgers, no but more help won't hurt.